Replay gain - R128?

Jesper's Avatar

Jesper

30 Mar, 2015 08:39 PM

Hi
I'm just curious - what algorithm is beatunes using for replay gain? I'm hoping that it uses the new R128...
Best regards
Jesper

  1. Support Staff 1 Posted by hendrik on 31 Mar, 2015 02:11 PM

    hendrik's Avatar

    Hey Jesper,

    beaTunes still uses http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=ReplayGain_1.0_specifica...

    I looked at implementing R128 a while ago and decided to rather work on more useful features when I read through the specs. Whoever wrote it, wasn't focusing on making it easy for implementers...

    -hendrik

  2. 2 Posted by Jesper on 05 May, 2015 06:40 AM

    Jesper's Avatar

    Hi Hendrik
    I got inspired by the R128 algorithm at an AES seminar here in Copenhagen. A guy from TC electronic held a presentation on the scientific work behind the standard and gave a demonstration. It is quite promising.
    I found out that foobar and dBPoweramp both uses the R128 algorithm (Although with a target volume similar to ReplayGain 1.0 and thereby 5dB higher than the R128 standard indicates... This is in my opinion a good compromise) and I compared the results with Replaygain 1.0. The difference in the results is small between tracks of the same genre (fx dance music) but as soon as you switch to genres or older tracks that do not have the same har compression and heavy bass the results are more different and more consistent with the R128 since the persieved loudness is more even here....
    Foobar can easily write the Replaygain tags with the R128 but does not compute the iTunesnorm tag. Can Beatunes do that calculation from existing replay gain tags? Then it would be easy to use foobar for R128 and beatunes for the rest :-). Honestly I did not test this with beatunes yet - even though I own a full license :-)

    Best regards
    jesper

  3. Support Staff 3 Posted by hendrik on 07 May, 2015 07:09 AM

    hendrik's Avatar

    Can Beatunes do that calculation from existing replay gain tags? Then it would be easy to use foobar for R128 and beatunes for the rest :-). Honestly I did not test this with beatunes yet - even though I own a full license :-)

    You know, it could. The code is in place but the current logic does not play along.
    Right now, beaTunes will always read the iTunesnorm tag first and use it, should it be present. When writing, it will write the current value to both the ReplayGain tag and the iTunesnorm. And that's the catch: Because it prefers iTunesnorm that way, it will never really read your externally computed ReplayGain tags.

    Sorry,

    -hendrik

  4. 4 Posted by huppi on 28 Mar, 2016 02:43 PM

    huppi's Avatar

    Hi Hendrik,

    just bought your fantastic app to raise the overall quality of my very big iTunes Music Collection. I'm working on Mac and my iTunes-Mediathek is on a NAS.
    The main reason and trigger for using beaTunes is the ReplayGain functionality which makes it possible to write all 4 ReplayGain Tags and the iTunnorm Tag into the Audiofiles without converting the Music. I found out that dbPoweramp can also do this, but under OS X on the Mac it reencodes the audio. I have mainly ALAC (Apple lossless) but with lossy files like MP3 this is a total nogo.

    Now I have only one problem with beaTunes and I really hope you can fix this:
    I'm missing the option to use the EBU R128 Standard with ReplayGain and get these Album Gain into the iTunnorm Tags to use them on my Mac and iDevices too.
    In dbPoweramp this is possible and you can choose the LUFS and change them from the official -23 (for the Media) to -18 which is what Replaygain uses since decades. But - again - the software reencodes the audio. They offer a Plugin which does it without encoding but it only works under windows.

    In the meantime I must use Foobar2000 (Windows) with the help of Crossover on the Mac which is a terrible situation. But even Foobar changed to EBU R128 (with LUFS -18) in the meantime.

    My opinion is that beaTunes is the No.1 to offer this option too because it has much more possibilities for real musiclovers than any other App and is very professional. Please give use the option to choose between the old and the future ReplayGain Standard and let us choose the target level so that we can use the best quality again and help to end the Loudness War forever.

    Thank you very much for your wonderful Software!

  5. Support Staff 5 Posted by hendrik on 29 Mar, 2016 06:26 AM

    hendrik's Avatar

    Hey,

    Thanks for your very kind words.

    R128 is on the wish list list for beaTunes 5, but there is no way of saying when exactly it will be released. My best guess right now is later this year. Please note that major version updates (e.g. 1 -> 2 or 4 -> 5) are usually not free. However, beaTunes 4 license owners will be able to update for a discounted price.

    Cheers,

    -hendrik

  6. Support Staff 6 Posted by hendrik on 30 May, 2017 08:06 AM

    hendrik's Avatar

    Hey Jesper & Huppi,

    just wanted to let you know that the first beaTunes 5 beta is out and that it features R128. More info can be found at http://blog.beatunes.com/2017/05/beatunes-5-ea1-feedback-welcome.html

    Cheers,

    -hendrik

  7. 7 Posted by ErikL on 02 Jun, 2017 12:10 PM

    ErikL's Avatar

    beaTunes 5 beta is out and that it features R128

    does this mean that calculating replay gain in Foobar and beaTunes results in identical and app-indepent values?

  8. Support Staff 8 Posted by hendrik on 02 Jun, 2017 12:42 PM

    hendrik's Avatar

    I guess so, if you use the same reference level.
    But I really cannot speak for Foobar 2000.

  9. 9 Posted by huppi on 06 Jun, 2017 07:12 PM

    huppi's Avatar

    Hey,
    Foobar2000 uses 89 dB as the target level for R128 but the user can change it. I think that is a little bit louder than the official standard to get it a bit closer to the old Replay Gain standard.
    JRiver's Media Center seams to use 83 dB as target level. I think that is the "official" standard.

    I didn't find any settings for R128 in beaTunes 5 till now.

    Mit freundlichen Grüssen / with kind regards

    Rainer Huppert
    +49 2237 6039233
    +49 175 5557241
    [email blocked]
    Platanenalle 7 B, D-50169 Kerpen
    Der Umwelt zuliebe: Bitte prüfen Sie, ob diese Mail wirklich ausgedruckt werden muss! Bitte vermeiden Sie Papier und schicken Sie keine Briefpost.

    Am 2. Juni 2017, 14:43 +0200 schrieb hendrik <[email blocked]>:

  10. Support Staff 10 Posted by hendrik on 06 Jun, 2017 08:02 PM

    hendrik's Avatar

    It's in the analysis options that appear when you start to analyze some song.
    See attached screenshot.

  11. 11 Posted by huppi on 06 Jun, 2017 08:48 PM

    huppi's Avatar

    Danke für die schnelle Antwort - ich bin noch nicht soweit.
    Habe zweimal neu angefangen, da es einen Konflikt mit der Datenbank aus Version 4 gab.
    Heute schliesslich die 4 deinstalliert und die 5 nochmal neu gestartet. Synchronisierung läuft jetzt nach einigen Schluckaufs seit Stunden. Wird wohl morgen fertig sein (245000 Tracks).
    Bin gespannt.

    Mit freundlichen Grüssen / with kind regards

    Rainer Huppert
    +49 2237 6039233
    +49 175 5557241
    [email blocked]
    Platanenalle 7 B, D-50169 Kerpen
    Der Umwelt zuliebe: Bitte prüfen Sie, ob diese Mail wirklich ausgedruckt werden muss! Bitte vermeiden Sie Papier und schicken Sie keine Briefpost.

    Am 6. Juni 2017, 22:02 +0200 schrieb hendrik <[email blocked]>:

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