Creating a Matchlist from multiple songs

Richard's Avatar

Richard

15 Aug, 2020 04:55 PM

Hi Hendrik:

When a user selects multiple songs as the basis for a Matchlist, does the order of the songs selected influence the resulting list?

And, how does the matching process handle multiple songs as the basis for its match? Does it take average values? Does it match on each song separately and then combine the results? Or something else? It strikes me that some match parameters might not make a lot of sense (a subjective assessment to be sure) if the match basis is more than one song, depending on how the matching process is performed.

Thanks,
Richard

  1. Support Staff 1 Posted by hendrik on 16 Aug, 2020 09:30 AM

    hendrik's Avatar

    Hi Richard,

    Does it take average values?

    No.

    Does it match on each song separately and then combine the results?

    Yes.

    It strikes me that some match parameters might not make a lot of sense (a subjective assessment to be sure) if the match basis is more than one song, depending on how the matching process is performed.

    Indeed. What's your opinion about trying to create matchless based on multiple tracks? Does that make sense to you at all?

    Thanks,

    -hendrik

  2. 2 Posted by Richard on 16 Aug, 2020 03:39 PM

    Richard's Avatar

    What's your opinion about trying to create matchless based on multiple tracks?

    I don't know. Let me ponder on that.

    Does that make sense to you at all?

    It might not.

    Also.... (I may be hijacking my own thread here, but it's related...)

    One thing I'm having trouble with is missing or bad data when that criterion is a match parameter. "Trouble" in the sense of not knowing how to deal with it. Mostly, I'm talking about Mood and Genre.

    With Mood, I find that a little over 1/4 of my tracks have no Mood despite using all the tools available (that I know about) to get a Mood assigned. So, if I include Mood in a Match Profile (among other parameters), I think that means that 1/4 of my songs are immediately excluded from being matched, even if they score high on other parameters in the profile.

    With Genre... Genres are just difficult to work with because there aren't any good standards that I've found, and there can be a lot of subjectivity involved. I haven't been real impressed with the Discogs genres, to name one "authority". So the quality of a Genre match really depends on the quality of the Genre tag content in the user's music library. I'd like to use Genre the Match profile, but sometimes Genre makes the matchlist worse rather than better, subjectively speaking.

    My solution so far has been to have several Match profiles that include or exclude Genre and/or Mood, run different ones at different times, and then pick and choose among the results to decide which I like the best in any given circumstance. It's not a very elegant solution, but it's what I've got.

    No criticism of beaTunes implied in any of the above. It's just the nature of the beast, so to speak. The music beast. Some Match users won't have these problems, depending on where they get their music from.

    I haven't used the "Import metadata from online resources" analysis option yet. I'm going to play with that a little bit on some of my tracks that I know don't have good genre tags.

  3. 3 Posted by Richard on 16 Aug, 2020 11:14 PM

    Richard's Avatar

    Upon reflection, I think I agree that songs should not be combined to create some sort of average value set if matching from multiple source songs. I think your approach of matching to each song individually and then consolidating the results is the best general approach.

    I do think that each song in the source match group ought to get a fair shot at contributing matching songs if possible and within reason.

    Example: 2 source songs A & B. Let's say A has a lot more songs that match really well than B does. As a user, I think I want an approximately equal number of matching songs from both A and B, even though the B matches aren't as "good". (I'm assuming there is some sort of numeric Match score that is being derived to determine which songs show up in the result set. In this case, I want to include some B songs that have a lower score than some A songs to achieve approximate balance in the number of songs from both A and B. This means that some higher scoring A songs will be rejected in favor of some lower scoring B songs.)

    The caveat, however, is that all songs still have to meet the threshold. If I don't have enough B songs for the result, then A songs can supply the remainder.

    The same logic would apply if there are lots of source songs. If I have 10 source songs and I'm asking for a matchlist of 20 items, the goal would be for each source song to supply 2 matching songs (or 1 matching song if the source songs are to be included in the result).

    In the case of ties, I would choose the highest scoring song. If the user wants 15 matching songs from 2 source songs, I would award the 15th slot to the higher scoring of the 8th best matches from both A and B, for example.

    Same logic if the user wants 10 matching songs from 15 source songs. The five lowest scoring best matches from the 15 won't be included, meaning (in this case) 5 source songs won't contribute any matches at all. This would be kind of a stupid case, but we know someone will try it at some point.

    The other thing I wonder about is the order of the result set. As a user, do I want the result ordered from highest to lowest score? Or do I want A's best match, then B's best match, then A's 2nd-best match, then B's second best, and so on (in the case of 2 source songs)? I tend to think the latter of those two choices, but other users may have a different opinion. Where do I want the source songs (if I have asked for those to be included)? All at the beginning of the list, or mixed in somehow? Not sure.

    These are just my initial thoughts, subject to change based on additional input & experience. I hope this helps.

  4. Support Staff 4 Posted by hendrik on 21 Aug, 2020 10:15 PM

    hendrik's Avatar

    Thanks, Richard!

    As always, I appreciate your input.

    Have a great weekend!

    -hendrik

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