Fingerprint required for similarity?
Hi,
Since the ETA on an analysis of my library is about 2 weeks, I'd like to cut down on as many options as possible. The description of the fingerprinting option is ambiguous. Is it exclusively for detecting exact duplicate tracks? It plays no role in similarity analysis? (Compilation of similar songs to a seed track).
My library does not have (unintentional) duplicates, so I am not interested in this feature.
However I WILL be searching for similar tracks (mood, bpm, 'color' etc.). So do I need the fingerprint option?
Thanks
Daniel
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Support Staff 1 Posted by hendrik on Apr 30, 2017 @ 10:13 PM
Hey Daniel,
no, you don't need fingerprinting for similarity.
Perhaps http://blog.beatunes.com/2015/01/audio-analysis-options-explained.html is also helpful to you.
Cheers,
-hendrik
2 Posted by leodf on May 01, 2017 @ 10:04 AM
Thank you Hendrik.
Yes that post was useful.
My library is already professionally and accurately tagged. I would like to focus on the analysis portions that do not alter tags. From what I understand, the Inspection activities work on the tags, but it is not clear how the Analysis actions work. What does 'Replace existing ....' mean? Does it write tags to the files, or are the results stored externally in the database (tracks remain untouched)?
If it is a mix of both, please let me know which Analysis functions write tags, and which don't. (As said above, my main focus is using beaTunes to find similar sounding tracks to a seed track. Not organising my library, fixing tags etc..)
Thanks
Daniel
Support Staff 3 Posted by hendrik on May 01, 2017 @ 10:11 AM
Hey Daniel,
this all depends on what kind of library you use. Folder- or iTunes-based?
More info can be found in http://blog.beatunes.com/2013/10/so-where-exactly-does-beatunes-sto... and http://blog.beatunes.com/2015/01/different-libraries-for-different-...
Replace existing...basically checks whether a value exists already. When the checkbox is on, the value is computed and stored regardless of whether there is already a value. This has nothing to do with where stuff is stored.For folder-based libraries, beaTunes always stores in both the internal database and the file.
For iTunes-based libraries you have a choice in the general preferences. Fields not supported by iTunes may only be stored in the internal database.
Cheers,
-hendrik
PS: If you're afraid that anything gets damaged in your nicely tagged library, create a backup. I recommend this, not because I fear beaTunes will mess anything up, but because sometimes things don't turn out the way people expect them to turn out (misunderstandings etc.). beaTunes Analysis cannot be simply undone! And it's often a mass operation. So please be careful.
4 Posted by leodf on May 01, 2017 @ 12:38 PM
Sorry, I forgot to mention. I use the regular on disk folder library. No iTunes.
That first link was very helpful. The second I read already. Thanks
Just to be clear then: With 'Replace...' OFF. With the corresponding (say BPM) original tag (not created by beaTunes) already present in the track, will the analysis simply copy over the tag info into the database, without doing an analysis.
With 'Replace...' ON. A fresh analysis is performed and the result overwritten (or created) in both the database and file tag.
On another note, I would like to mention how impressed I am with the product so far, especially by a single developer. At the moment I'm using Magix MP3 Deluxe, which is struggling immensely with my 400k+ database. The import took nearly 2 days, including many crashes. In contrast, beaTunes handled the import smoothly and very quickly. Finished within about 2 hours. I noticed during the import, with 16GB RAM (15GB free), beaTunes only used 4.5GB. Should this have been more for better performance? (Windows 10)
Finally, the area of music analysis (not identification) is still quite small. The engine used in Magix is mufin (mufin.com), another German company. I was wondering if you know anything about it and if/how your own system operates in a similar manner.
Regards
Daniel
Support Staff 5 Posted by hendrik on May 01, 2017 @ 03:37 PM
Hey Daniel,
If there is already a tag, beaTunes will not analyze BPM at all. This means, it won't write anything.
Yes.
If you're unsure of these things, make sure to test with a small batch of songs first!
Thank you for the kind words!
Memory often helps to run things more smoothly. But it depends upon the size of the library and the task at hand whether it really helps.
I'm actually a little surprised that it took only 2h to import 400k songs. Where are they stored? Locally?
Also, the 16GB RAM—is that what the machine physically has to offer or what you granted beaTunes via the BEATUNES_MEMORY environment variable?
You can monitor beaTunes memory consumption in its About dialog. The typical pattern is that consumption slowly increases up to a bound and than sharply drops to a much lower number. If the "drop" does not happen anymore, you probably haven't granted beaTunes enough memory and should increase it via
BEATUNES_MEMORY.I believe mufin.com is a Fraunhofer spinoff. They specialized in audio fingerprinting and similarity. Beyond that I have no idea what they do.
Cheers,
-hendrik
6 Posted by leodf on May 01, 2017 @ 05:03 PM
Hi Hendrik,
Yes, the files are stored locally. The internal mechanical hard drive (not SSD) of the PC. 413k tracks, about 1.4TB. 16GB is the total installed system RAM of the PC. With 15GB free (available for use), as per Task Manager (Windows 10)
I have not made any tweaks for the memory. Just the normal default install. Currently with the program idle, the About tab reads 92m - 512m, ~250m (fluctuating).
When I was observing the memory use during the import, with Task Manager, memory use by beaTunes ('Java Platform SE binary') rose to about 5.6GB in the beginning, then lowered and settled on about 4.5GB for the duration of the import. I am talking about the import/selection of the music folder on first run of the program (not the Analysis).
Maybe it was a bit longer, say 3 hours. I didn't check the time. When I do a re-import, I will be sure to let you know the exact time.
If there is anything you would like to know about the performance of beaTunes with my library, let me know. I would be pleased to assist.
Regards
Daniel
Support Staff 7 Posted by hendrik on May 02, 2017 @ 08:22 AM
Hey Daniel,
With that many songs, I'd recommend to increase the heap RAM to at least 1GB, as explained in http://help.beatunes.com/kb/troubleshooting/manually-changing-the-b... The reason is, should you bump against that bound, the database may get corrupted, which means you'd have to repair or rebuild it. You want to avoid that, as it is very annoying. If you have plenty of RAM (you seem to), you might want to go for 2GB right away.
This might be due to file caching effects. But I'm just guessing.
No worries. Nice to know the import worked for you in acceptable time. People with external or network drives experience much worse times.
In the not so distant future, beaTunes 5 beta versions will appear. I have rewritten much of the folder-based library synchronization code (basically what happens during import and every time you synchronize). I'd very much appreciate feedback for that. It will be announced on http://blog.beatunes.com/
That aside, if you notice anything that fails due to library size, please let me know.
Thanks a lot!
-hendrik
Support Staff 8 Posted by hendrik on May 30, 2017 @ 07:22 AM
Hey Daniel,
The time has come. I've just posted the first beta version last night: http://blog.beatunes.com/2017/05/beatunes-5-ea1-feedback-welcome.html
In version 5, you beaTunes should be named correctly in the Task Manager. I.e. no more "Java Platform SE binary".
Cheers,
-hendrik
9 Posted by leodf on Nov 10, 2017 @ 07:39 PM
Hello Hendrik,
[Windows 10 - Folder based library - appx half million tracks]
I've installed version 5 (5.0.5 x64) trial. The upgrade crashed with a blank error window. See Screenshot 1. Error window could not be interacted with or closed. Had to kill the task from Task Manager.
I uninstalled my registered version 4 (including database) and ran the install again, which completed successfully and automatically commenced to sync my library (roughly 500k tracks). This ended with a memory error - See Screenshot 2. I increased the memory to 2000 MB in the error window, OK'd and exited the program and did a reboot.
Ran the program again after reboot, with same error. See Screenshot 3.
Checked the About tab. Only shows 92m - 640m.
Went into Windows environment variables. Found value was 2044m. Manually changed to 2G.
Started the prog. About tab reads 92m - 2G.
--- So, it seems the memory error dialogue is faulty by changing the var in Megs instead of Gigs. Or the prog improperly reads the var past 1000m (Giga). Whatever...
--- The upgrade crash probably happened for the same reason. Had insufficient memory. Didn't recognise the mem variable properly and crashed during conversion/sync of database while installing?
At least the memory is saved properly in the About info now. Haven't tried the sync again yet, or tried the analysis. Hope to do more testing before trial runs out.
Regards
Daniel
PS: What colour is the sun? --- White or yellow? Maybe orange? Pink? ... (HumanSpam protection)
PPS: Wasn't yellow...
10 Posted by leodf on Nov 11, 2017 @ 07:20 AM
UPDATE: Sync completed flawlessly in about 4 hours
Support Staff 11 Posted by hendrik on Nov 12, 2017 @ 02:41 PM
Hey Daniel,
Thanks for making me aware that something with the memory configuration seems to be broken on Windows.
One can either specify a heap size in megabytes or in gigabytes. So both ways of doing it are perfectly valid. The
Aboutdialog really only reads some value and displays it (it's fairly dumb).It sounds like things are working for you now. Correct?
Cheers,
-hendrik
12 Posted by leodf on Nov 12, 2017 @ 05:15 PM
Hi Hendrik,
to recap:
Setting the memory environment variable to 2000m (set via the memory error popup) did NOT work. The About tab showed 640 MB (default?) and the sync crashed.
Setting the environment variable (manually) to 2G DID work. The About tab showed correct amount (2G) and the sync worked.
So in my case, only the 2G figure was valid. The 2000m figure was NOT valid. If you have some way of testing this, I'm sure you'll see it too.
Yes, the sync worked properly AFTER changing '2000m' to '2G'.
Regards
Daniel
Support Staff 13 Posted by hendrik on Nov 15, 2017 @ 12:01 PM
Hey Daniel,
I did some digging and it turned out, that while beaTunes did set the memory value correctly, a user logout (or computer restart) was needed for the changes to actually take effect.
I believe I have fixed the problem in version 5.0.6 (not released yet). I.e. no logout or restart should be required any more.
Thank you for making me aware of this.
-hendrik