Moods

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Richard

07 Jul, 2020 03:52 AM

I have several Mood questions.

#1 - If a track is re-analyzed for Mood, and the Mood doesn't change from the previous value (either the identical Mood value is returned as already exists in the track, or no Mood value is returned because the track isn't in the LastFM or AcousticBrainz databases), will beaTunes still update the Modify date/time of the track? And will beaTunes still update its own database even though no substantive change was made?

#2 - Hendrik, do you know how often do LastFM and AcousticBrainz update the moods in their own databases? If that happens with any frequency, should a fussy beaTunes user reanalyze his/her tracks for Mood on a periodic basis?

#3 - Relating to question #2, I spot checked just a few tracks for the group Arabesque. Out of 8 tracks that already had a Mood, 5 kept the same mood (*based on the phrase only) and 3 visibly changed.
"In for a Penny, in for a Pound" was "excited". Now it is "very excited, astonished".
"Midnight Dancer" was "very pleased". Now it is "very content, calm".
"Hell Driver" was "very content". Now it has no mood at all. The re-analysis must have removed the old mood, which I think is somewhat interesting. I'm not sure what to make of a mood going away.
I don't know when the original analysis was done on these tracks. Probably a couple of years ago.

(I do know that "mood" is actually the combination of 2 numeric values on a +/- 100 point scale for Happiness and Arousal, which then gets translated into a phrase for viewing purposes. But I don't know how last.fm assigns those values. A cursory google search got me nowhere.)

  1. Support Staff 1 Posted by hendrik on 07 Jul, 2020 06:25 AM

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    1. If there is a difference, beaTunes will update the file and its database. If there is no difference, nothing will happen.
    2. LastFM changes its tags all the time, though not substantive. AcousticBrainz hardly ever changes. I would not re-run mood analysis all the time. If at all, re run it once a year or so, but more to get mood tags for tracks that were previously unlabeled.
    3. I cannot really explain a mood "going away". No idea what happened there.

    But I don't know how last.fm assigns those values.

    Neither LastFM nor AcousticBrainz use the valence/arousal scale. For LastFM beaTunes "translates" textual tags, for AcousticBrainz the results of multiple classifiers are combined.

  2. 2 Posted by Richard on 08 Jul, 2020 04:21 AM

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    I saw Happiness and Arousal scores in the tags and assumed that those came from LastFM and translated somehow into the Mood phrase. I stand corrected.

    As (maybe) a point of interest, beaTunes was able to assign a Mood to 204,563 songs, leaving 183,763 without a Mood. So, 52.68% with a Mood on my library of 388,326 songs. Someday, I'll reanalyze those with no Mood to see how many it can pick up on a second try. I spot checked a few dozen songs. No more Moods were picked up on the retry, which is good news for the process, but it's too bad the LastFM & AcousticBrainz resources aren't more complete.

  3. Support Staff 3 Posted by hendrik on 09 Jul, 2020 07:28 AM

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    I saw Happiness and Arousal scores in the tags

    Oh really? In LastFM tags? That's odd.

    but it's too bad the LastFM & AcousticBrainz resources aren't more complete.

    If you want to contribute to AcousticBrainz, please install and run the plugin! This will effectively increase the chances of getting moods for your tracks. A word of caution though: LastFM is the much better source in my opinion, plus running that plugin takes a long time and does not work for all tracks. Also note, that running the plugin will not import the AcousticBrainz data right away, but only report it to the AcousticBrainz servers. From there it is then available to beaTunes again.

    A problem LastFM and AcousticBrainz share, is that one first has to match tracks from your collection to them. That does not always work, but a best effort is made.

  4. 4 Posted by Richard on 09 Jul, 2020 06:49 PM

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    I had the old AcousticBrainz plug-in installed (v0.9.1). When I go to Plug-In Preferences, it shows as being crossed out (disabled). I see the newer v1.0.0 available to be added.

    When I tried to update v0.9.1 (right-click, select "Update Plug-in"), nothing happens. When I tried to Uninstall v0.9.1 (right-click old version, select "Uninstall plug-in"), it asks if I really want to uninstall it. I click OK and then the dialog box goes away and nothing else happens.

    Then I simply tried to install v1.0.0. That seemed to work. I exited and restarted beaTunes and v1.0.0 is now showing as available. v0.9.1 is still there, however, crossed out. (Actually now I notice that v0.9.1 is called AcousticBrainz.org Mood, whereas v1.0.0 is called AcousticBrainz Submit. So maybe these 2 plug-ins are actually not related to each other other than they each involve AcousticBrainz?)

    I selected one album that didn't get a Mood from analysis and ran the AcousticBrainzSubmit analysis on it. I got 1 message saying the first track doesn't have a MB ID. The other 9 tracks processed without generating messages. I looked at the tags on one of those tracks. There was no apparent change, and the Analysis date tag wasn't updated. I ran Submit again on that one track. Again, no message and no change to tags. Should there be any change in the tags at all if this was the only analysis run? I do get that this is a 3-part process: (1) run the Submit analysis, (2) give AB time to do it's thing, and then later (3) run the regular Mood analysis to retrieve what AB did with the track.

    Update: This is about 2 hours later. I ran Mood on the first album I submitted to AB. The 9 tracks that didn't generate error messages the first time came back with Moods this time. So, success on that!

    (PS- I also tried to Uninstall the Discogs Genre plug-in as I have no use for it. It won't uninstall either.)

  5. Support Staff 5 Posted by hendrik on 10 Jul, 2020 07:25 AM

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    So maybe these 2 plug-ins are actually not related to each other other than they each involve AcousticBrainz?)

    They are related, but v1 is not a straight update from 0.9.1, that's why update didn't work.

    I looked at the tags on one of those tracks. There was no apparent change, and the Analysis date tag wasn't updated.

    That is correct. The analysis is external to beaTunes and transmitted to the AcousticBrainz server and nowhere else.

    Should there be any change in the tags at all if this was the only analysis run?

    No. Running AcousticBrainz is doing something to benefit the community. However, by contributing, you can benefit down the line.

    Should there be any change in the tags at all if this was the only analysis run?

    No.

    I do get that this is a 3-part process: (1) run the Submit analysis, (2) give AB time to do it's thing, and then later (3) run the regular Mood analysis to retrieve what AB did with the track.

    Exactly.

    Update: This is about 2 hours later. I ran Mood on the first album I submitted to AB. The 9 tracks that didn't generate error messages the first time came back with Moods this time. So, success on that!

    Yep! Nice. The estimated mood values may not be perfect, but it's a start.

    (PS- I also tried to Uninstall the Discogs Genre plug-in as I have no use for it. It won't uninstall either.)

    Uninstall and restart did not lead to the plugin disappearing from the list of installed plugins?

  6. 6 Posted by Richard on 10 Jul, 2020 02:26 PM

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    You asked: "Uninstall and restart did not lead to the plugin disappearing from the list of installed plugins?"

    Answer: Correct. It did not disappear from the list of installed plug-ins and it still does appear in the list of things that Analyze can do when it runs.

    Similarly with the 0.9.1 AB plug-in. shows as disabled, but it won't actually go away from the list of plug-ins.

  7. Support Staff 7 Posted by hendrik on 04 Aug, 2020 09:42 AM

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    Hi Richard,

    Where are we on this?
    Is this perhaps already resolved?

    Cheers,

    -hendrik

  8. 8 Posted by Richard on 05 Aug, 2020 03:18 PM

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    I tried it again. I highlighted the 0.9.1 ABMood plug-in. It is already "crossed out". When I right-click, I can either Uninstall it or Update it. If I choose "uninstall" (even though it's already disabled), it asks me if I really want to. I say Yes and the dialog box goes away with no other obvious change. I close and reopen beaTunes 5.2.11 and go back to Preferences>Plugins. ABMood is still there as before, disabled.

    If I click Update, it doesn't do anything except turn "Update" from black to grey font (since there is no update).

    Functionally, I don't think any of this is a problem. From a UI perspective, I think it's a little confusing for a typical user. That's just my opinion.

    From your earlier comment, I know I could simply go into the relevant folder and manually delete the obsolete plugins if I wanted to. for now, I'm leaving them there.

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